This story was told by Maciej Łuczak (http://trenerluczak.pl), Polish Champion, three-time World Champion in Kettlebell Marathon and personal coach.
copyright: TETE (Tomasz Tomaszewski)
WO: One contestant once said that kettlebells is the kind of sport whose practice not only makes your body look like a Ferrari but also gives you the power close to a powerful, reliable and highly potent Ferrari engine. How would you react to this? Would you agree?
MŁ: Yes, this is exactly so. But in order to really understand that feeling you need to start training. Kettlebells is an extremely complex sport which involves every piece and parcel of your body. And the workout is definitely intense.
WO: What does kettlebell training involve?
MŁ: What counts most is the kettlebell itself: a cast iron ball with a handle. Kettlebell training involves a whole set of ballistic exercises which engage your whole body. To do the so-called deadlifting – throw the kettlebell up in the air – you need the strength of your arms but the power will come from all body parts. You elevate just like weightlifters lift weight bars. Of course, I’m giving here a very rudimentary description, without going into details.
WO: How does such lift look like precisely? Where is the kettlebell located; in the middle, on the left or the right? I know that a weight bar is lifted with both hands, and a kettlebell with one hand only.
MŁ: On a professional, competitive level everything depends on the specific game case. For instance, you may have competitions with two kettlebells, and you lift both as high as your chest, with your elbows on the pelvis. In this position you lift kettlebells just like weightlifters lift a weight bar. You step under to take as much weight off your arms as possible.
WO: Everything with just one arm?
MŁ: Yes, you can also do it with one arm only. You do it asymmetrically, engaging only one side of your body. In the competition you can freely shift hands; everything depends on the rules and regulations of the game. For example, during a ten-minute lifting sequence you can only switch hands once. In longer, thirty or even sixty-minute long competitions, you can change your hands at any moment, and as many times as you like.
WO: This begs an obvious question: what about safety and injuries? I imagine that when you exercise with a big kettlebell, and with one arm only, it’s easy to bend over sideways, fall down or even get a muscle tear. It seems like a very dangerous sport to me.
MŁ: You may be right, but it’s just what you see at first glance. Training has several stages. First, and most important one is about building stability, not only the one inside, in the spine, the so-called core, but also the stability of your shoulders, hips, knees, and feet. At this preliminary stage all of this needs to be mastered to perfection. Without the core, this inner strength that comes from the tension of your abdominal muscle and the stable body, you’d be like a beautiful Ferrari without a performing engine.
WO: So, how do you start training? Again, to compare it with a Ferrari – where do you start your engineering?
MŁ: You have to learn the basics, like crawling on all fours, just like babies exercise when they learn how to walk. The rest is just building, climbing higher and higher on the experience ladder, one step at a time.
WO: I think it would be useful to talk a little bit about the origins of kettlebells. We had this conversation once and we agreed that it has not so widespread yet. All I know is that it comes from Russia. Could you tell us a few words about how the idea for such competition came about? From what I’ve heard, the story is exceptional…
MŁ: Yes, indeed, the story is quite interesting. This sport has ancient roots and goes back to the times when farmers would use a 16-kilo kettle, the equivalent of one pood – an old Russian measure, to weigh their grain. One day, they went bonkers, got boozy, started to show off and compete about who’d be better at lifting that weight. It later evolved into a circus show, and the element of competition was added. The discipline grew until sport competitions were organized. Of course, this is a long story told in a nutshell.
WO: I’ve also heard a very interesting episode about the Russian army’s special forces
MŁ: Yes, around 1980 kettlebell workout was introduced as a compulsory curriculum item in Soviet schools. It had been observed that the more physically fit people were, the more productive they became at work and stayed in good shape, and their healthcare spending was lower. This type of exercise was introduced in the army, both in special forces, and in regular military settings, to make soldiers more productive. There is no doubt that kettlebell helps build incredible endurance and resilience; it helps manage stress and effort which in itself is stress-inducing.
WO: Maybe this is a secret, but is it true that this sport is a must for the Russian Spetsnaz?
MŁ: I don’t know if it’s a secret, but yes, this is true.
WO: Your Website says that kettlebells are like a moveable gym. Does this sport increase body mass, and if not,why is that?
MŁ: Kettlebell lifting, and training with kettlebells in general, builds the body to its natural shape. There will be no excessive body mass gains. If you have any underdeveloped muscle groups compared to what is required by the sound biodynamics of your body, with kettlebells you’d definitely fill in the gap. And the other way round: any excessive body mass will be reduced. Your body shape will be sculpted to its right proportions.
WO: From what you’ve been saying, what is essential is body awareness, and the coach has a role to play here. Do you know any contestants who have trained without the coach?
MŁ: Of course, I know people who have trained without the coach. I believe, though, that people who’ve just embarked on their kettlebell journey should do it with the coach – a smart one, I’d even add, the one who is informed and savvy. It’s true that professional contestants train on their own, but they are already well aware of their bodies, they know the basics of biomechanics, anatomy, endurance building, training methodology, and they will not hurt themselves. I can’t imagine someone with no experience, a beginner, lifting such heavy equipment without adequate skills. As I’ve mentioned before, you first need to build stability, improve technique, and only then it will work out.
WO: How long do you need to train with kettlebells to reach a level where you are maybe not a world champion but at least you start to enjoy it, and you feel that kettlebell workout procures satisfaction, for your body and for your wellbeing?
MŁ: I think that this happens fairly quickly; the hardest part is building the self-awareness and stability of the whole body, muscle control, and control in general.
WO: A month? Six months? Two years?
MŁ: I think that you will get the benefits already after six months.
WO: Someone once said that in kettlebell workout you’d develop the sense of balance. In a way, this is like in business where you are by definition often knocked out of your balance. Would you agree?
MŁ: Yes, it’s true. The balance is also about motricity. I know from experience that when I was in combat sports for a dozen of years I’d always struggle with overstraining and disturbed balance. I often felt pain: usually in my back, sometimes in my buttocks, legs, or even in my neck. When I started kettlebell training all the pain in my back, hips or from overstrain was simply gone. What’s at stake here is exactly the symmetry in workout. As for business, the mentality or, as you’ve said, business approach, is nothing less than self-focus, hard work, consistency and its positive consequences.
Road to the top
WO: You are the World Champion, you’ve gained many titles. As far as I know, you are the only Pole to win the “Master of Sport World Class”?
MŁ: Now I am no longer the only Pole who holds the title, but yes, for a long time I was the only one.
WO: No success lasts forever. How do you deal with the fact that there are younger competitors? Do you feel that you still need to prove yourself?
MŁ: No, I think that I’ve reached the point when I don’t need to prove anything. It’s true, for a long time I had a feeling that I had to be the first, the only one, no matter what. Now, I know that this maturity comes with time and I’ve reached it. I have had my big wins and I no longer have to prove anything to anyone.
WO: What actually help secure the victory? I’ve read in a book that it takes four things to win: strength as such, endurance, ability to keep this endurance throughout the competition, and, to my surprise, flexibility. Is this true? What can you say about each of these elements?
MŁ: I believe that flexibility is the key to build strength and endurance: if your body is stretched, blood circulation and muscle metabolism improve, and that is how you perform better and have more stamina. This is absolutely the foundation. Strength alone may be helpful, but stamina and strength endurance are essential in kettlebell workout. Otherwise the operations with kettlebells performed in competitions would actually not be possible. This is really hard work. You need a different training methodology for that, but this is just one stage in the whole workout which also includes these include strength, endurance, and strength-endurance stages. And you continue to add stretching and mobility exercises along the way.
WO: So you keep reaching for your left ear with your right hand?
MŁ: I do my best. (laughter)
WO: Have you experienced any moments when something didn’t work at all, you utterly failed, and the failure was so acute that you wanted to quit? If so, and provided that you were able to bounce back, how did you do it?
MŁ: I’ve had a few “falls”. There was this competition in Italy: I was very well-prepared, but for some reason, upon the start, I acted as if I had a kettlebell in my hand for the first time only a few months before. It’s a sport, and even if you train very hard, you are only a human and you simply need to be aware that the setting, the vibe around, weather, stress, long travel times, jet lags – all of that may affect your performance in competition. I have won many times, but losing is also a great learning experience. My team is always of help in such instances; they supported me during my preparations and the tournament itself. I got a lot of support, which is rare when you fail.
WO: That’s a good point: you lift the kettlebells on your own. How many people work for the champion to be successful?
MŁ: A host of people. As for me, I try to train on my own, but it doesn’t change the fact that I need to have friendly and smart people around. I always ask one of them to tell me what I did wrong during the competition, because this is not something I am able to judge by myself. There are also some rules for cheering me on; I need very specific support, very down-to-earth and matter-of-fact guidance, something that will not be a distraction, but rather helps eliminate mistakes I might make. Anyone who works with me knows that system in detail.
WO: In other words, choosing the right people around you is part of your planning or a strategy to improve your chances of success.
MŁ: Yes, of course. I think choosing the right people is key. I have a great team in Poland, and when we travel to international competitions everyone on the team is – as the saying goes – the right person in the right place. This is yet another important ingredient and element of success.
WO: On your journey to the top, you’d always come across mentors – people who give you a helping hand on a one-off occasion or those who would always stay by your side. Could you tell me who in particular inspired you to reach a championship level?
MŁ: I think the whole team of individuals I’ve been working with, and my family. There is a whole kettlebell community; people who help you prepare and arrange things. I don’t want to name all of them, the list is quite long. In general, these are all the people around me, both in the kettlebell community and in my private life, so friends and family. They all help and support me. They drive me to be successful at the top level.
WO: Can you win a competition by chance?
MŁ: No.
WO: I’m asking that question because in the world of business success is like recording a song which becomes a success story. Only after some time will you know that this was a band with only one hit. Do you know any contestants who have reached some level or have won by chance or with a little bit of luck?
MŁ: I’ll tell you a story about one tournament in Lithuania. It was me and a few contestant on my level, plus one top-ranked world-class athlete, much better than me at the time. It didn’t even cross my mind that I could win. We started out, and just in the middle of the competition he gave up and put his kettlebells down, while I endured till the end. On that day I broke my personal life record, and I set a new record for Poland. I later asked Arthur what had happened. ‘I had a mental burnout’ – he replied. Such unexpected situations are possible. I don’t know whether it was a coincidence or whether my hard work simply paid off, but I definitely succeeded and gained some new experience.
WO: Jim Collins, professor, lecturer and business management guru says that at times you have to be both well-prepared and count on your “return on luck”. Only those who are well-prepared win, but luck can help. Those “lucky” situations – at least in my case – make you persevere; I want to strive for something. All in all, in order to reach your level you need to do certain things and decide to skip others. That’s why I sometimes need to prioritize. Things we do or we don’t do may lead you to a dreamed place, some goal, success in private or professional life, or the life of the athlete. How is it in your case?
MŁ: Well, I’d usually focus on what I do. Of course, what you don’t do affects greatly what you do. But for me training has always been number one. I’ve never fancied partying long into the night, booze or doing anything that could undermine my achieved performance level. The truth is that what I’ve already achieved is something I always dreamed of, but there is still more ahead of me, so I can’t let it go.
WO: There is one question I’d often ask people, especially sportspeople: is it all about talent or hard work?
MŁ: Definitely hard work.
WO: What are the biggest trade-offs you had to make to achieve the championship level?
MŁ: I think that the main trade-off was about the time I devoted to sports as opposed to moments spent with my family. This is the hardest piece of the puzzle. At some point I would go for competitions sixteen times a year, in various parts of Europe. This involved not only limited family time, but also a lot of financial investment in sport. I think these two are the biggest of my trade-offs.
WO: You’ve once said that kettlebells helped you deal with the unexpected. Could you explain what can be unexpected in such a “boring” activity as kettlebells?
MŁ: Kettlebell lifting may seem boring, but only for the bystander. A contestant who is well-prepared has an elaborate competition strategy, with the specific number of repeats per minute, the breathing cycle, the tension-relaxation rhythm, analysis and feedback. All of that builds up the picture of your resilience, preparedness, your breathing technique, the moments of fatigue, when your rhythm becomes disturbed, and the way you can compensate it. This is a lot of knowledge based on the competition strategy, a curve that should reach zero and level off, to retain the balance. Believe me, it’s far from boring.
WO: Every once in a while, during your workouts and competitions, especially in strength and combat sports, you experience pain. What about pain in kettlebell training? Do you take painkillers, or are there other pain management methods?
MŁ: No, when your technique is correct and you stretch regularly pain should not be a problem, and should not prevent you from competing. Of course you may experience muscle pain at times but this is because of hard work and your commitment, and the stress involved in tournaments or workout. But in kettlebells I’ve never seen a case of someone being eliminated from training because of pain.
More than just a sport
WO: I’ve read somewhere that to manage pain, instead of pharmacology you should simply focus on your body and finding its root cause. Do you share this view?
MŁ: There is a lot of truth in that. As a physiotherapist I can say that I fully agree! Having said that, it is crucial that in training or in competition, you should avoid any overstraining which leads to strong pain. This would simply be unnatural.
WO: Let’s go back to what we’ve said when discussing your training method, i.e. the focus on your body. How to achieve the ‘focus’ – an element which – as I believe – helps us become better in what we do. In today’s world we are attacked by thousands, if not millions, of pieces of news. What is your perfect tip for staying focused?
MŁ: First of all I think a lot about my goal. I call this a ’mind-training’. Plenty of studies have shown that what you ‘do in your mind’, even without actual exercise, has the effect of physical activity. I also have my playlist with songs to listen to before competing. With that I’m able to cut myself off and stay focused on the game”
WO: What about mindfulness, now also in use in business settings? Are self-awareness and meditation techniques used in kettlebell training as well?
MŁ: Yes, of course. I’ve never really delved into mindfulness but I do use visualization as part of my mental training, and I listen to my favorite music for a chill-out effect. I practice these methods mainly before competitions, and also in my daily training. What’s interesting, a couple of years ago, when I got my first university degree – pedagogy with specialty in physical culture and health – I wrote my MA thesis on the mental preparation of athletes in combat sports, and I used the example of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. A long time ago, before sleep, every day for around three months I visualized myself competing, up to the tiniest detail. Back then I didn’t have a slightest idea of what mental training was about, but I did feel slight pressure because my coach had very high hopes for me. It turned out that my three games at the Cup of Poland went exactly the way I had imagined in my mind beforehand. That’s how I decided to explore the idea and chose it as a topic of my MA degree paper.
WO: So once again we are back on the topic of balance and the paradoxical kind of effect: kettlebell training doesn’t look natural but our body gets right proportions, we are more balanced, both physically and mentally, more focused and more self-aware.
MŁ: Of course. Kettlebells are the most universal sports equipment that I’ve tested so far.
WO: And with your experience you would know.
MŁ: Yes, I do have experience. I believe that If the equipment is used skillfully, properly and as required, you need nothing more for your wellbeing and your good shape.
WO: What habits did you get thanks to kettlebell training? I have a feeling that high precision and awareness of your body always requires some self-reflection. If you are reflexive you need to approach the sport with a plan. Was such approach to sport easy or challenging for you?
MŁ: My story has quite interesting beginnings. I gave up professional training in combat sports to look for another form of exercise. I came across kettlebells, overcame my first resistance, gave them a try, started training, and eventually I found that I really enjoyed it. You’d ask why? Because you work on your own, you have to concentrate, and you are the only one responsible for what you achieve. I trained combat sports for over twenty years, I know my body, I know how much I can expect and how much I can “squeeze” out of it. That’s why, in my case, it was more a question of learning the technique, and then just polishing it.
WO: So here we are again discussing self-awareness, focus, and listening to yourself. I remember a quote from Bruce Lee, my childhood hero, who said that someone who is successful in sports can represent the average but still needs to master the focus on what they actually do. When listening to you I’ve thought that this is what kettlebell workout is about. As an outsider, I think of it as a high-risk sport for the body, but still helping, as you say, develop your natural muscle power and build the sense of symmetry and balance.
MŁ: Yes, you’ve put it rightly. For someone who is not an expert it may look unnatural, unhealthy or not in line with physiology: the lifter looks slightly hunched over. But you must remember that it’s all natural, there is nothing wrong in it, the spine is fully flexible, in general our shoulders, hips, and knees are flexible. When we learn the right habits, and our body knows the right poses, it will all be perfectly natural from a biomechanical standpoint.
From passion to inspiration
WO: How did you find motivation to keep this habit of exercising?
MŁ: Actually, I have been practicing this habit since my childhood. As I’ve mentioned earlier, I started training combat sports at the age of 10 and the idea was instilled in me that practice should be regular, so the habit was born naturally. For anyone who trains and wants to be successful or reach top levels in any field, not only in sports, a routine or a habit is a must.
WO: Can kettlebell lifting or any other type of kettlebell training be done without the coach?
MŁ: I think this would be very, very challenging.
WO: You are approached by people who would like to work with kettlebells, often with no previous workout experience. What do you think is the best motivation to acquire that habit? How to guide someone to make them get such habit? We know that after some time there efforts may be exceptionally rewarding. But if you get a lot of negative feedback along the way you may lose your motivation.
MŁ: In the learning process making mistakes is natural. If someone comes to the gym for the first time they can’t expect too much. I keep repeating that this is a long-term process, and that any learning involves mistakes. There is no one, or I’ve never met anyone, who would do everything perfectly from the start. So growth means months, sometimes years, of building the right habits and correct rules. Then, based on this, you achieve success, whether greater or smaller.
WO: What motivation method do you use? Do you praise people or rather say outright what they should not do? Or do you do both alternately? How do people respond?
MŁ: Criticism isn’t easy for someone who learns. I try to juggle both, explaining how something should be done, what is incorrect and how it impacts the whole performance. I explain consistently what will happen if you do something the wrong way, what the undesirable effect will be in six or twelve months, and what benefits you will see if you do something properly.
WO: What is your biggest success as a coach?
MŁ: Some sportspeople that I’ve trained have won the championship of Poland, have stood on the podium in Poland and even won medals in Europe and the world. All of them had one thing in common: they all managed to overcome their weaknesses.
WO: As a coach, you train people who may be quite different. Has anyone surprised you with their technique, or with what they have achieved with kettlebells? Has anyone approached you and said: ‘Thanks to my kettlebell training I was able to do this or that’? Maybe someone got something more from the activity than just a more muscular body and better wellbeing?
MŁ: Yes, maybe it’s presumptuous, but I must tell you that this happens to me almost every day.
WO: What is this precisely? What do people say?
MŁ: Thanks to sports and my workouts people have achieved better effects at work, learned how to be systematic and consistent in action, and realized what it takes to be persistent in what you do. What is really a coaching success is that my job, being a personal and group coach, is for me and my trainees a source of great satisfaction. This is the best reward you can get.
WO: What other goals do you have? What would you like to achieve in sports in the next ten years?
MŁ: As a sportsman I’d like to stay in good shape and become involved in organizing competitions, and developing this sport as an activist. I’d like to be a good coach, and be successful. I want the same for myself as a contestant, naturally, but at the moment this is no longer my priority.
WO: As a contestant you have self-discipline, and as a coach you have experience. How do you use what you’ve learnt as a contestant in your role of coach, and vice versa? Someone once told me that when they teach a group they learn much more than ever before. Is it similar for you? How do you combine these two very different functions and roles?
MŁ: As a coach, in the first place I try to pass on my experience I’ve gained as an athlete. I know what you feel at the start of the competition, when you’re loaded with kettlebells and fight to endure for some time. Myself, I use mental training and try to relay to others how and what they should think, what should guide them, what to pay attention to or how to relax. These are details but they really count.
WO: Have you ever heard from someone you coached something that made you change your approach to your own training? Maybe something inspiring? Even a one-off, informal remark, like ‘It’s a nice idea but I did it this way’. Do you happen to have such experiences?
MŁ: Yes, it happens to me all the time. I carefully listen to my trainees. Sometimes their comments are very valuable.
WO: I’d also like to ask about things you’ve taken from sports to your private life. Are there any skills that you’ve learned thanks to kettlebell training? If so, do you use them in your everyday life, even unknowingly?
MŁ: Yes, I believe so. Surely.
WO: And which are the key ones?
MŁ: Being consistent, well-motivated, and persistent in what I do.
WO: Sometimes a sports career can be very short-lived. What kind of contribution can a sportsperson make in business, once they sports career is over? Do you think that apart from persistence there are any other exceptional qualities which are natural in you and you are just surprised when other people don’t have them?
MŁ: Usually I stay optimistic in what I do. This is natural to me but I rarely spot this quality in others. In sports I’ve always imagined myself on the top of the podium, and I’ve had this feeling throughout all my life. I think that I feel the same while doing organization tasks. I want to be the best and strive to get there.
WO: At the moment you’ve been preparing for the World Championships planned for November, this time not as a competitor, but as an organizer. Is it hard to promote kettlebells in Poland?
MŁ: Yes, it’s not easy. Kettlebells as a sport is hardly known, poorly promoted and therefore unattractive to the average sports fan.
WO: Right, tell me, honestly, don’t you get bored with kettlebells? Looking at competitions I have the feeling that the same moves are performed over and over again. I wonder then how people can enjoy kettlebell training?
MŁ: People can become true kettlebells lovers! Your body works all the time, at top speed. That’s why I believe that you have no room for boredom here. Every time you pick up a kettlebell you strive to be a little better than before: have one more repetition, and last a second longer. It’s hard work, constant striving for the goal you’ve set for yourself.
WO: Maciek, thank you for your time. It was a pleasure talking to someone so passionate about what they do!
Passion2Value The concept of conversations and projects based on the combination of passions and values from various fields. By working in a specific setting, exercising or developing your passions, e.g. in sports or music, based on broader knowledge and skills from other disciplines, you can learn something as an academic discipline. You can create valuable things and enjoy yourself at the same time.
